Stromberg inlet thread fix

photo (1)“Help, I bought a new Stromberg inlet valve (S-jet 9564K) and it is too small to fit the inlet hole on the carb body”. It’s a rare email to our tech email address, but we have had a few lately. Sadly these are old Stromberg carbs that have been retro-fitted with bigger inlet valves – a regular fix back in the day for wrecked threads. People would drill the old 7/16th thread out and retap it for half inch. I guess bigger threaded needle and seats were available back then, though we have never seen an original Ford or Stromberg drawing for a casting or inlet valve with a half inch thread.

Good news is, our best buddy Max Musgrove at 97-Express sells a clever brass insert that will reduce your oversize inlet valve hole down to the correct 7/16th. They’re not expensive and will fix your carbs back to the correct size. The threads on the insert are 9/16″-18 OD. and 7/16″-24 ID. (standard). The carb needs to be drilled 33/64” and tapped 9/16″-18. Max uses a fixture for the bowl and spotfaces the gasket surface at the same time.

Cost is just $14.00 each for the bush. Or $30.00 if he does the repair (recommended!), as long as the carb has been stripped. This also includes spotfacing the jet plug and powervalve surfaces as well. Think. No leaks!  Here are the contact details you need.

Max Musgrove
97-Express
1173 South 1100 East
Salt Lake City
UT 84105-1815
USA

(801) 301-6114                 madmax1946@comcast.net

Stromberg 97 hand throttle

A few guys have emailed us asking about Stromberg 97 hand throttle parts and how to install them. We don’t supply the hand throttle parts on new Genuine Stromberg 97 carburetors simply because most of the carbs we supply go onto hot rods and the hand throttle is not required. Some guys use the parts off their own 97 when they update to a new model, of course, but if you don’t have the parts try Max Musgrove at 97 Express, who recons a lot of 97s and often has spare hand throttle kits. Email him at madmax1946@comcast.net . If you have parts, here’s how to fit them.

Align the holes and...

Align the holes and…

The Stromberg hand throttle parts came on the 97, 48, 40, 81 and LZ models. There’s the main lever with the ball on the end, a small collar, a spring and a cotter pin. Note that at the bottom end of the main lever, on the outside edge, half of the circle is missing (you can just see it in the pic). This mates with the tab on the inside edge of the small collar piece. The tab is smaller than the ‘half of the circle’ that is missing on the lever for a reason.

To install it, you push the lever onto the throttle shaft (obviously the other end to the foot pedal throttle bracket). Make sure that the ball is pointing outwards. It should slide right over the throttle shaft bush. If you have a brand new 97, we paint that bush. So you may need to scratch the paint off first. Make sure the lever spins freely on the bush. Then push the spring over the end of the throttle shaft. It goes inside the lever a little at the bottom.

...insert the pin

…insert the pin

Now push the small round collar onto the end of the throttle shaft (compressing the spring) so that the tab on that collar fits into the gap (the ‘half a circle’) in the bottom end of the lever. Align the holes in the end of the throttle shaft and the collar and insert the pin. Make sure you get the holes in the correct alignment. You want the lever pointing to about 10pm when you put the pin in vertically. If you do this you will notice that when you pull on the pedal lever, the hand lever does not move because the collar tab rotates in the ‘half a circle’ gap in the lever (mentioned above). Without this, the hand throttle knob would move in and out of the dashboard as you drive. It may need a little adjustment to ensure that the hand throttle knob does not move in normal driving. One more thing. It’s a good idea to support the end of the throttle shaft with a block of wood when driving the new pin, to prevent tweaking it. And if you do use the hand throttle, push it back in to dashboard (the off position) before using the pedal. It’s not like a modern cruise control where the pedals (throttle or brake) automatically overide the hand throttle!  Any questions? Email us at tech@stromberg-97.com

 

Update – 16 Sept 2015.

Max Musgrove sent us some pics of the clever jig they built to support the 97 throttle shaft to fit the hand throttle parts. Thought we’d share them with you.

 

The right air filter for Stromberg 97s

Our buddy Lez dug into his legendary vintage magazine stash for this great Street Rodder magazine tech article all about choosing the best air filters for your Stromberg 97s. Written by the highly esteemed Ron Ceridono back in 1998, with input from Stromberg expert Jere Jobe (from Vintage Carburetion North), it is, of course, just as relevant today as then. Sorry about the quality. It’s a scan of a photocopy, but if you click on the pages below, they will come up at a readable size.

While it’s well worth reading every word – hey we’ve even thrown in a free Dick Spadaro ad – if you’re looking for the ‘executive summary’, it’s this….. “if you have an air filter on your 97, make sure it’s a K&N E-3120”. Here’s why: Click the pages below to view, or ‘right-click’ this link to download the 2-page pdf. Choosing The Right Air Filter

Let’s build a Stromberg 97 3×2

Chevy 3x2The basis for this how-to comes from some posts we made to a Jalopy Journal HAMB thread, “Let’s build a Stromberg 97 3×2“. We felt it was good idea to give our own view on the best way to set your 97s up on a Chevy small block motor. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, of course, and we respect that. These are just ours. This does not apply to the new BIG97s, either. Please see our separate How-To articles on the BIG97 tri-power.

Primary/Secondary…It is our belief that you cannot regard three Stromberg 97s in the same way as an old muscle-car era, factory Rochester tri-power. They are completely different carburetors. It is far wiser to ask how the 97 can work best for your particular application. Back in the day, people mostly used a direct linkage for 97s on the new Chevy 265 and 283 motors, with all three carbs kept the same, and yes, you can set the carbs up to work like that with great results. What we tend to do now, though, is use a progressive linkage  – also with all three carbs the same – rather than the traditional idea of one good primary and two ‘dumb’ secondary carbs with giant main jets, but no power valves or idle circuits. It’s a sort of half-way house solution. We still call them primaries and secondaries, but only in terms of where they sit and which open first.

Looking at your 3×2 progressive then…We recommend you leave all three carbs with WORKING idle circuits in all three so all of the cylinders get even fuel distribution at idle and up the rev range (idle circuits stay on for long than you might think).. On those dual-plane Chevy 3×2 intakes, the center carb can supply all eight cylinders, but they’re pretty old designs, unchanged since the 1950’s, so the better access you can give all cylinders to even fuel/air distribution the better. What you don’t need is lean end cylinders. And by the way, leave all the chokes in as 97s need them to ensure reliable vacuum signal at the emulsion tube tips. You can lock them open with our 9537K-L kits if you need (all or just the outer two). And aim for 2.5psi regulated fuel pressure. You can go lower but not much higher.

Using this exact set-up, we tested a hot 355inch Chevy motor back in late 2010 in Arizona (around 2000ft elevation) on a new Edelbrock 3×2 intake and it made 345hp at around 5000rpm with better fuel efficiency than a Holley 600 4bbl. Those intakes max out at 5000rpm. We found it revved to about 5700 but the power and torque was flat after 5K. Max torque was about 380ft-lbs. We were testing something else at the time so at the end of the session we literally used three 97 carbs out of the box with stock 0.045 jetting and number 65 power valves, and the air/fuel ratio was pretty good from idle to 5K. We did find, however, that you could disconnect the outer carb accelerator pumps and it made almost no difference. You didn’t need the outer pumps (squirters) or the extra top end enrichment from the outer carb power valves either (they come in when the accel pumps hits the pin on the top of the power valve at about half throttle).

Some people have talked about filling the outer carb PV holes with epoxy. If you do this, and leave the accelerator pumps linked, you will get some hydraulic pressure in the pump well (which could damage the linkage), even with the little relief valve in the bottom of the pump. Plus you pretty much wreck the carb for alternative use. It’s easier to just disconnect the outer carb pump link rods, though we have developed a ‘dummy’ pump for use in a future project so you can keep the look of your pump and pump link. We did not spend a lot of time on this dyno test and maybe we could have adjusted the tune to keep all three PVs and pumps working. I expect we’ll test this set again soon, so I’ll report what happened on a different 330hp GM Performance crate motor we have.

CFM Requirement…This is one of the main reasons why some people believe that three 97s are not enough for a modern 350inch small block Chevy. But it’s too easy to get hung up on cfm requirements. The important thing to remember is that maximum cfm is only important at max revs. The traditional math for cfm requirement might say that three 97s at 162cfm each is not enough air for a 350 inch Chevy, though evidence on the dyno and the road disagrees. And we suspect that’s because we all overestimate the volumetric efficiency of our engines. Remember we said that the 355inch dyno results stopped at 5000rpm? That wasn’t the carbs. It was the manifold. At idle your Chev could run on a lawnmower carb because the basic requirement is cylinder volume x revs. Low revs = low cfm requirement. And when you get higher up the rpm chart, volumetric efficiency pays a larger part in governing what you really need. We can only quote the dyno test above and remind you that we have many customers running this system including one local buddy who leaves black tyre lines at every local stop light. 345hp in a lightweight ’32 Ford can get pretty scary! And they really do rev up quick with the progressive linkages.

Balance/Tuning…Set all three carbs on the manifold with no linkage at idle. Get a vacuum gauge and balance all three carbs so each is set the same and contributing the same air/fuel mix to the overall engine. Aim for the maximum vacuum from all three carbs. You can adjust them using the throttle stop screws on the side of the carbs, and the idle mixture screws on the bases to keep it smooth and not lumpy. It’s fiddly and you have to go around and around adjusting. There was a great post on the HAMB about carb balancing a few years ago if you can find it. But you should get a smooth idle at the rpm you want – using all three carbs.

Then you can fix the linkage making sure that it does not disturb the idle balance you have already. You can read how to set the linkage up on our tech center – http://www.stromberg-97.com/tech_cen…nkage-Inst.pdf

With a progressive linkage, your outer carbs sit there (feeding a little in through the idle ports) until you hit about half throttle, at which point your centre carb will come onto the power valve and start enrichening the mixture just as the outer carbs start opening, adding more air and gas. The main jets start up literally the moment you open a 97, so they’re good to go straight away as the signal is very accurate. It’s that smooth progression that makes them work so well. On a Chevy, start them out of the box and then read the plugs or get the gas analysed. You won’t be far off at 0.045 main jets and number 65 PVs (the ‘out of the box’ setting). And try it with the outer accel pump links disabled. Each application will differ slightly with local gas, elevation, cam etc.

Distributor vacuum…The 97 provides no ported vacuum for a distributor advance. We recommend an all-mechanical distributor because we have had customers connect the distributor to the manifold and it doesn’t like it. It won’t idle and throws out black smoke because the distributor is fully advanced at idle. We have seen vacuum taken from the rear plug on the 97 base, but Norm Schenck, our consultant at Competition Fuel Systems in AZ says, “we need the vacuum advance only at light load/part throttle conditions (cruising), and none at idle or full throttle. Only a port on the front of the throttle bore at the same height as the transition fuel port accomplishes this”. We are working on a new base to achieve this, right now.

Linkage and fuel lines….Stromberg offers a wide range of fuel delivery parts for this application, from straight brass hose ends to banjos – including some with a mechanical fuel pressure gauge port in the end. Please note that to use banjos with a progressive linkage you also need our banjo spacers to move the fuel line away from the center carburetor linkage lever. For the Chevy, our 9246PRO kit is well proven and comes with two torsion carb return springs. If you want to use a throttle cable, our 9136K Cable Throttle Bracket is designed to hook you right up. We also offer a 9246PRO-KD version that can pull your auto trans kickdown cable.

Got any further questions? Email us any time at tech@stromberg-97.com

Tuning the Stromberg 6×2 linkage

You’ve chosen your Stromberg 6×2 kit. Now let’s get it working…

It’s not hard to see why every hot rodder loves a Stromberg 6×2 system. It’s an eyeful from every angle. And it hauls ass too. But don’t forget that 6×2 systems were generally designed for racing, so making them work effectively on the street is another question altogether. Now, we’re not going to be talking about which Stromberg 6×2 kit to select for your intake here. We cover that in another Tech Center How-to (and elsewhere on this Bulletin). What we’re talking about is how a 6×2 intake can be set up, with a linkage that helps your whole application work better…

First off, we better remind everyone that a 6×2 system is no place for worn out old 97s. You need good reliable carburetors with good fuel metering, no play in the shafts and no air or fuel leaks. Six air leakers is a problem for good idle. Six fuel leakers is a problem for your personal safety.

Racing. If you’re genuinely using six 97s to go racing then it’s simple. Buy a Stromberg 6×2 direct linkage. And set the pedal link to open all six at the same time – quickly.

On the street. OK, so what about the 6×2 linkage in your grocery-getter? The truth is, we can’t give you a definitive answer for every application. But we can say that, whatever you do, you’re probably going to look at a linkage based around two Stromberg TwoStep 3×2 progressive linkages, plus a Back-bar kit to join the two banks of carburetors together. Linkage installation instructions can be downloaded at our Tech Center, of course.

Let’s look at some basic principles and remind you that all Stromberg progressive linkages are hugely flexible in operation, so you can tune it for many different outcomes. One setting does not fit all applications, and the weight of the car, gearing and rearend ratios, engine tune and drivability, your favored freeway cruising speed, and more, can all play a part.

Pedal response. As a rule, you want smooth throttle operation with a slow pedal ratio, ie. you push the pedal further for a set response at the carburetors. Do the opposite and the throttle becomes like an on/off switch, which is no fun on the street. Now, your pedal ratio and travel are probably fixed, so being able to change things at the linkage end is important. There are three adjustment holes at the top of the long back bar levers. And if you link your pedal to the highest hole and set the link to the carbs in the lowest hole, you will get the slower throttle response. The opposite is true of course, if you find you are bottoming out your pedal before you hit WOT and you need faster response at the carburetor end of the linkage. Remember, of course, that you must never hit Wide Open Throttle (WOT) with any pedal travel left to go, as forcing the pedal further could damage the linkage, stress all the links and, worse, break it and leave your motor uncontrolled.

Four carbs working. Here’s the next thing to think about. Just because you have six 97s on the manifold, it doesn’t mean you have to use them all. One option is to use our 29447K Blank-off plate kit under the center carbs on each bank (remembering to use a gasket above and below the plate) and blank off the fuel to them too, keeping the outer four operational. So it looks like a 6×2, but operates like a 4×2. You’d keep one carb pretty much over each set of intake ports. Plus you’d be looking at 4x162cfm = 648cfm – enough to run a 350 Chevy and rev any older motor well beyond its comfort zone.  You could run a Stromberg 6×2 direct linkage opening the four outers together, or you could hedge your bets and go for the progressive option in case you ever change your mind on the center carburetors. The 3×2 progressive on each bank can be set up so it pulls the outer carbs from idle.

Six carbs working. Ok, so you want the full 6×2 street experience? Let’s talk about linkage adjustment. With the progressive sliding links on the top adjustment holes in the center carburetor levers, and the sliding stops adjusted so that all three carbs on each bank reach Wide Open Throttle (WOT) at the same time, the system will run on the center two carburetors from idle, bringing the outer carburetors in from around 50% throttle. On a 3×2 you have a a lot of versatility on bringing the outer carbs in earlier or later, but on a 6×2, it’s not that easy because the slider rod MUST be attached to the top hole in the long center lever because the bottom hole is taken by the link to the back-bar. And if you swap them, those back-bar links hit the back carb fuel inlet.

Even then, we’re not completely out of the woods. On a 6×2 progressive linkage, the sliding rods on each bank must join to the front carburetors. They cannot join to the back carbs (as you would usually with a 3×2) because of clearance issues with the back-bar. Why is that a problem? Because on a front-facing 3×2 progressive, with the sliding rod in the top adjustment hole, that sliding rod will rub on the underside of the center carburetor hose (if you use traditional fuel hoses). The good news, though, is that we offer a special fitting to help you out. 9080K-E, our extended Superseat hose fitting, moves the hose and clamp further out a little to leave a gap for the sliding rod to clear. Check out the pictures on our website. You may have seen pics of old school 6×2 progressives with slider rods bent like a big L shape to miss that center carb fuel inlet. Use a 9080K-E and bendy rods are history.

Warning! ….Do not use the linkage in any configuration that will cause sticking and binding, which could result in uncontrolled engine speed, property damage, serious personal injury or death.

Return springs. Make sure all six carburetors snap shut when you lift off at the pedal. We mean it! All Stromberg linkage kits are supplied with our Snapback torsion throttle return springs. They’re almost invisible. They work great and you can get more from your Stromberg dealer (ask for 9154K). Remember you already have the accelerator pump springs helping return the throttle so you shouldn’t need a crazy number of springs. If there is any slowness in the throttle return it is probably at the pedal end or because your swivels are misaligned. Eye the system from above and adjust the levers along the throttle shaft or Back-bar as required.

Jetting. We cover jetting in other How-to’s and the message is the same for a 6×2 system as any other. With engine tune, elevation, local gas laws, ethanol content and more all having a bearing, each application will be different, so it’s almost impossible for us to estimate what you need. So we usually say start with the standard 0.45 mains that Stromberg 97s come with and see how it works from there. Though as a rule you’ll probably need small power valves – nearer the number 71 mark.

Just remember, the main jets come in almost immediately off idle and control the fuel air mixture at cruise speeds. Once you get past around half throttle, the power valves join the party. The power valve controls the amount of enrichment at higher revs. While it does pass through the power valve, the volume of accelerator pump ‘squirt’ is not really dictated by it. In tuning, you might want to try disconnecting some of the accelerator pump lever links (like all outer four at first) to test reducing that top end enrichment and also the amount of at raw gas injected when you pump the throttle. Remember, most 6×2 intakes were designed for racing at full throttle. If you crawl around town and rev it at the lights, you will get wet fuel in the bottom of the intake.

As always, getting the car/engine onto a dyno of some sort will help you measure what is happening and make informed decisions about tuning. One small tip: Once the linkage is set-up, it is often easier to leave it in place and remove the carburetor bowls off the bases to change jets. Keep persevering and you will find a good level of tune that suits your engine and your driving style.

Your link to the pedal. We have said this before, but it’s worth repeating. Stromberg recommends a mechanical pedal link for all multi-carb systems. Ideally, your 6×2 Back-bar can be connected to the pedal via one of the long levers that work the two banks of carburetors. But if these don’t line up with your pedal link, you can add a third long lever to the Back-bar shaft with Stromberg kit 9096K (Long linkage arm/swivel) positioned to align with your throttle pedal ‘pull’ point.

You can download this How-to at the Stromberg Tech Center (click the link). As with all our Tech articles, we welcome customer feedback and other input. Add a comment right here, or email us (tech@stromberg­-97.com) with your thoughts and if it adds to the debate, we’ll add it in.